Comments on: Whistler to get 20 hydrogen buses http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/whistler-to-get-20-hydrogen-buses/ Thoughts about the relationships between transport and the urban area it serves Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:48:31 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Astrolounge http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/whistler-to-get-20-hydrogen-buses/#comment-21667 Astrolounge Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:33:10 +0000 http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/whistler-to-get-20-hydrogen-buses/#comment-21667 This has now proven such a terrible idea. I live in Whistler and the whole project has gone so far into the crapper it's clogged the neighbor's toilet. The buses they're getting are "Flyer" types, and, first off, they are simply too big. They can't fit under the overpasses, or make the sharp turns involved in drop offs at ANY of the hotels in town. As such, the H2 buses are only going to be used for the routes that only travel on the highway. There are only TWO bus routes in all of Whistler that do that, meaning that at MOST 8 out of the 20 buses will be being used. Oh, but it gets stupider: The new buses short out if they go through more than 10 inches of water, they just shut down completely if you do it. Both of the routes these buses would go on frequently have deeper puddles than that, especially in the winter when the storm drains start to freeze. They have nicely redesigned the buses so that the H2 tanks are on the roof now rather than underneath, so at least they won't explode every time they hit a speed bump like the previous design would have. Except that this redesign made them too tall to fit in the bus bays we currently have. So now they're building a new bus depot just to house them. Now comes the coup final de stupide: The reason they went with Hydrogen over electric, is that the electric buses would take too long to charge from a standard outlet. All 8 being used out of twenty,. They initially thought they would be using all of them so that at least is understandable, they didn't know switching them out would be an option. Now, they were planning the new bus depot before the hydrogen bus plan; however, the new depot is directly adjacent to a power sub-station. You're telling me they couldn't have asked BC hydro to run them a high power line to charge them fast enough? And don't think no one thought about it either. BC Hydro was pushing for electric buses and offered to provide high current lines to charge them but they were shot down. Now, obviously, BC Hydro really just wanted that sweet sweet bus money, but hydrogen was eventually selected ONLY because it was the environmental buzzword at the time. I'm dead serious, the mayor admitted it. Hydrogen is a stupid power source. Especially somewhere like Whistler where it gets too cold for the fuel cell to work in the winter, so they have to be equipped with a special heater to run. This is just another reason I think they should have gone electric. Since batteries expend a lot of energy as heat, you can use that heat to help keep the bus interior warm, save on using the heater as much, and not waste the heat byproduct. Though if you didn't want to do that, you could use some of that 45 million dollars to have Ballard power (one of the companies involved in making the new buses) devise an more efficient battery, with that kind of funding I'm sure they could work up something. ...Wow I'm ranting like a madman. I'll summarize: Flawed concept, poor planning, sloppy execution. Electric good, Hydrogen bad. — if you actually read this whole thing I commend your dedication. This has now proven such a terrible idea.
I live in Whistler and the whole project has gone so far into the crapper it’s clogged the neighbor’s toilet. The buses they’re getting are “Flyer” types, and, first off, they are simply too big. They can’t fit under the overpasses, or make the sharp turns involved in drop offs at ANY of the hotels in town. As such, the H2 buses are only going to be used for the routes that only travel on the highway. There are only TWO bus routes in all of Whistler that do that, meaning that at MOST 8 out of the 20 buses will be being used. Oh, but it gets stupider: The new buses short out if they go through more than 10 inches of water, they just shut down completely if you do it. Both of the routes these buses would go on frequently have deeper puddles than that, especially in the winter when the storm drains start to freeze. They have nicely redesigned the buses so that the H2 tanks are on the roof now rather than underneath, so at least they won’t explode every time they hit a speed bump like the previous design would have. Except that this redesign made them too tall to fit in the bus bays we currently have. So now they’re building a new bus depot just to house them.
Now comes the coup final de stupide: The reason they went with Hydrogen over electric, is that the electric buses would take too long to charge from a standard outlet. All 8 being used out of twenty,. They initially thought they would be using all of them so that at least is understandable, they didn’t know switching them out would be an option. Now, they were planning the new bus depot before the hydrogen bus plan; however, the new depot is directly adjacent to a power sub-station. You’re telling me they couldn’t have asked BC hydro to run them a high power line to charge them fast enough? And don’t think no one thought about it either. BC Hydro was pushing for electric buses and offered to provide high current lines to charge them but they were shot down. Now, obviously, BC Hydro really just wanted that sweet sweet bus money, but hydrogen was eventually selected ONLY because it was the environmental buzzword at the time. I’m dead serious, the mayor admitted it.
Hydrogen is a stupid power source. Especially somewhere like Whistler where it gets too cold for the fuel cell to work in the winter, so they have to be equipped with a special heater to run. This is just another reason I think they should have gone electric. Since batteries expend a lot of energy as heat, you can use that heat to help keep the bus interior warm, save on using the heater as much, and not waste the heat byproduct. Though if you didn’t want to do that, you could use some of that 45 million dollars to have Ballard power (one of the companies involved in making the new buses) devise an more efficient battery, with that kind of funding I’m sure they could work up something.
…Wow I’m ranting like a madman. I’ll summarize:
Flawed concept, poor planning, sloppy execution.
Electric good, Hydrogen bad.
— if you actually read this whole thing I commend your dedication.

]]> By: Stephen Rees http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/whistler-to-get-20-hydrogen-buses/#comment-2015 Stephen Rees Thu, 03 May 2007 14:44:19 +0000 http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/whistler-to-get-20-hydrogen-buses/#comment-2015 Smelly: "passengers pedalling stationary bikes on the bus" direct drive is more energy efficient http://www.flickr.com/photos/t6hawk/482326999/ Smelly:

“passengers pedalling stationary bikes on the bus”
direct drive is more energy efficient
http://www.flickr.com/photos/t6hawk/482326999/

]]> By: Stephen Rees http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/whistler-to-get-20-hydrogen-buses/#comment-2006 Stephen Rees Wed, 02 May 2007 20:55:33 +0000 http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/whistler-to-get-20-hydrogen-buses/#comment-2006 I drive a 1995 Dodge Caravan and what has that to do with anything? It is not a "step in the right direction" it is a silly waste of money. Hydrogen is not yet ready for prime time - as the hydrogen vehicle makers at this week's conference/trade show were quick to point out. And it is instructive that governments are expected to absorb most of the R&D costs. If this was such a good idea, government could not get near it for all the elbowing by the auto makers. Who seem strangely reluctant to leap aboard. Even Toyota, who beat them all to hybrids. We could have had a train to Whistler still if the BC government had not been so keen to sell the family silver. And the hydrogen buses will not be in intercity service but local transit around Whistler village. Now if someone wants to start selling hybrid conversions for old minivans, sign me up today! I drive a 1995 Dodge Caravan and what has that to do with anything?

It is not a “step in the right direction” it is a silly waste of money. Hydrogen is not yet ready for prime time – as the hydrogen vehicle makers at this week’s conference/trade show were quick to point out. And it is instructive that governments are expected to absorb most of the R&D costs. If this was such a good idea, government could not get near it for all the elbowing by the auto makers. Who seem strangely reluctant to leap aboard. Even Toyota, who beat them all to hybrids.

We could have had a train to Whistler still if the BC government had not been so keen to sell the family silver. And the hydrogen buses will not be in intercity service but local transit around Whistler village.

Now if someone wants to start selling hybrid conversions for old minivans, sign me up today!

]]> By: Sean Orr http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/whistler-to-get-20-hydrogen-buses/#comment-2004 Sean Orr Wed, 02 May 2007 18:31:53 +0000 http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/whistler-to-get-20-hydrogen-buses/#comment-2004 ^well the games <i>are</i> supposed to promote athleticism... ^well the games are supposed to promote athleticism…

]]> By: Smelly http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/whistler-to-get-20-hydrogen-buses/#comment-2003 Smelly Wed, 02 May 2007 18:29:40 +0000 http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/whistler-to-get-20-hydrogen-buses/#comment-2003 Why so negative? It's a step in the right direction! What kind of car do you drive? Actually what they should do is build a trolley busline to Whistler, then it runs on electricity. And you could power it with the passengers pedalling stationary bikes on the bus. Ya, that's it, that's the ticket! Why so negative? It’s a step in the right direction! What kind of car do you drive?
Actually what they should do is build a trolley busline to Whistler, then it runs on electricity. And you could power it with the passengers pedalling stationary bikes on the bus. Ya, that’s it, that’s the ticket!

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