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	<title>Comments on: Taxpayers get say on $18m transit levy</title>
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	<link>http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/taxpayers-get-say-on-18m-transit-levy/</link>
	<description>Thoughts about the relationships between transport and the urban area it serves</description>
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		<title>By: Meredith</title>
		<link>http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/taxpayers-get-say-on-18m-transit-levy/#comment-10999</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/?p=1032#comment-10999</guid>
		<description>I would suggest that with climate change and peak oil having the potential to affect the national economy, a national transit strategy should be developed ... meaning the feds should get involved more than they currently do.  They rely heavily on income, business and consumer taxes for revenue, not property taxes, and have the authority to impose a transit levy across the country.  Dare they convert existing tax revenues from many departments -- perhaps the GST -- as well as oil subsidies and establish a new transit and health care tax / levy that is transparent?  I personally would like to see more transparency.  Funding from general revenue can hide a multitude of sins.

The constitution places cities under provincial jurisdiction (along with health care), and  look where that has gotten us.  &#039;Patchwork quilt&#039; comes to mind.  I contend that only a foolish city or provincial government would block or turn down billions for transit under a contractual, negotiated deal directly with the feds even if its&#039;s outside the constitution.

The feds could demand cities build denser, energy self-sufficient transit-oriented communities with urban design guidelines and agree to be audited on their progress over, say, a decade in return for supplying the transit and perhaps some grants for self-sufficient energy projects (eg. solar-assisted district heating plants).  If a city balks at eliminating the zoning that creates single-family sprawl the gobbling up of vast tracts of agricultural land, or a province says get out of our constitutional jurisdiction, then simply withdraw the offer, and explain the environmental and economic consequences of doing so.

The reality is that the local draw on a federal contribution of a billion dollars is very low.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would suggest that with climate change and peak oil having the potential to affect the national economy, a national transit strategy should be developed &#8230; meaning the feds should get involved more than they currently do.  They rely heavily on income, business and consumer taxes for revenue, not property taxes, and have the authority to impose a transit levy across the country.  Dare they convert existing tax revenues from many departments &#8212; perhaps the GST &#8212; as well as oil subsidies and establish a new transit and health care tax / levy that is transparent?  I personally would like to see more transparency.  Funding from general revenue can hide a multitude of sins.</p>
<p>The constitution places cities under provincial jurisdiction (along with health care), and  look where that has gotten us.  &#8216;Patchwork quilt&#8217; comes to mind.  I contend that only a foolish city or provincial government would block or turn down billions for transit under a contractual, negotiated deal directly with the feds even if its&#8217;s outside the constitution.</p>
<p>The feds could demand cities build denser, energy self-sufficient transit-oriented communities with urban design guidelines and agree to be audited on their progress over, say, a decade in return for supplying the transit and perhaps some grants for self-sufficient energy projects (eg. solar-assisted district heating plants).  If a city balks at eliminating the zoning that creates single-family sprawl the gobbling up of vast tracts of agricultural land, or a province says get out of our constitutional jurisdiction, then simply withdraw the offer, and explain the environmental and economic consequences of doing so.</p>
<p>The reality is that the local draw on a federal contribution of a billion dollars is very low.</p>
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		<title>By: Not much response &#124; Vancouver Metblogs</title>
		<link>http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/taxpayers-get-say-on-18m-transit-levy/#comment-10982</link>
		<dc:creator>Not much response &#124; Vancouver Metblogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/?p=1032#comment-10982</guid>
		<description>[...] maybe we have become cynical. And thought that attending a meeting about an issue that has only arisen because the Province listens to businesses (mostly) was a bit of a waste of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] maybe we have become cynical. And thought that attending a meeting about an issue that has only arisen because the Province listens to businesses (mostly) was a bit of a waste of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: grant g</title>
		<link>http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/taxpayers-get-say-on-18m-transit-levy/#comment-10981</link>
		<dc:creator>grant g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/?p=1032#comment-10981</guid>
		<description>one more thing -if any of you have read bill 43 (greater vancouver transportation authorization amendment act 2008 )  ie; the new translink board--------------------------------------the way the act is written if they raise transit fares ( which they did ) they also HAVE to raise gas taxes and property taxes, its a three for one option only!    so thats what they have done -raised fares--raised property taxes (not counting this replacement tax ) and raised gas tax!-------in the future,because it still won`t be enough ( not near enough) everytime they raise one it has to ---&quot;by law &quot;  it has to be all three raised in conjunction!                  TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESETATION  -----BY A UN ELECTED board of kevin falcon appointees--   the  mayors council got to pick this board --out of 15 names kevin falcon supplied!              and the mayors cannot overrule anything this board decides!     these experts also have the power to tax outside of the gvrd---they also have the power to toll every crossing in the province old or new--the power to tax welfare cheques (social service tax )       tax ferries! rail !           BECAUSE WHAT YOU UNIMFORMED DO NOT REALIZE ---THIS BOARD OF GOVERMENT HAND PICKED EXPERTS --IS IN FACT A  DEFACTO TAXING AGENCY---------BECAUSE CAMPBELL AND FALCON DO NOT WANT TO TAKE THE HEAT--                    ENJOY THE  5 billion dollar olympics--   and say a prayer for tibet--and give some food to the food bank--- and when we fall into recession this and next year --there will be no surplus for anything-----so we had a chance with full  coffers to improve society,but oh-no  we blew on a 2 week party that most of could not afford to attend ( and we weren`t invited )                                                                                                 signed......reality</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>one more thing -if any of you have read bill 43 (greater vancouver transportation authorization amendment act 2008 )  ie; the new translink board&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;the way the act is written if they raise transit fares ( which they did ) they also HAVE to raise gas taxes and property taxes, its a three for one option only!    so thats what they have done -raised fares&#8211;raised property taxes (not counting this replacement tax ) and raised gas tax!&#8212;&#8212;-in the future,because it still won`t be enough ( not near enough) everytime they raise one it has to &#8212;&#8221;by law &#8221;  it has to be all three raised in conjunction!                  TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESETATION  &#8212;&#8211;BY A UN ELECTED board of kevin falcon appointees&#8211;   the  mayors council got to pick this board &#8211;out of 15 names kevin falcon supplied!              and the mayors cannot overrule anything this board decides!     these experts also have the power to tax outside of the gvrd&#8212;they also have the power to toll every crossing in the province old or new&#8211;the power to tax welfare cheques (social service tax )       tax ferries! rail !           BECAUSE WHAT YOU UNIMFORMED DO NOT REALIZE &#8212;THIS BOARD OF GOVERMENT HAND PICKED EXPERTS &#8211;IS IN FACT A  DEFACTO TAXING AGENCY&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;BECAUSE CAMPBELL AND FALCON DO NOT WANT TO TAKE THE HEAT&#8211;                    ENJOY THE  5 billion dollar olympics&#8211;   and say a prayer for tibet&#8211;and give some food to the food bank&#8212; and when we fall into recession this and next year &#8211;there will be no surplus for anything&#8212;&#8211;so we had a chance with full  coffers to improve society,but oh-no  we blew on a 2 week party that most of could not afford to attend ( and we weren`t invited )                                                                                                 signed&#8230;&#8230;reality</p>
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		<title>By: grant g</title>
		<link>http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/taxpayers-get-say-on-18m-transit-levy/#comment-10980</link>
		<dc:creator>grant g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/?p=1032#comment-10980</guid>
		<description>what I am trying to say is -the  priorities of the bc libs are wrong--they exempted the big polluters ( oil and gas ) and subsidized them at the same time - do any of you believe oil and gas industry needs a subsidy--could not the 700million dollar subsidy for this and next year ( which was taken out of the 4billion dollar surplus )it   could have been put toward capitol cost of the 14billion dollar transit plan!   the (now spent ) 4 billion dollar surplus IS EXCESS TAX THAT EVERYONE IN THE PROVINCE HAVE PAID!    if we can pay 1.5 billion dollars for olympic security ( out of bc tax dollars )   we can put it into transit--  translink( the bc goverment ) hasn`t a hope in hell of raising 14billion in dribs and drabs!      either we are serious or were not!    hell even if bc lottery was to pay for translink expansion,with all its income it would still take decades!                      you all disapoint me-- just like a decade of federal liberals promising daycare--as well as a decade of stalling kyoto accord!                                                                             talks cheap BC LIBERALS PUT ( OUR ) MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!                     signed--------------reality</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what I am trying to say is -the  priorities of the bc libs are wrong&#8211;they exempted the big polluters ( oil and gas ) and subsidized them at the same time &#8211; do any of you believe oil and gas industry needs a subsidy&#8211;could not the 700million dollar subsidy for this and next year ( which was taken out of the 4billion dollar surplus )it   could have been put toward capitol cost of the 14billion dollar transit plan!   the (now spent ) 4 billion dollar surplus IS EXCESS TAX THAT EVERYONE IN THE PROVINCE HAVE PAID!    if we can pay 1.5 billion dollars for olympic security ( out of bc tax dollars )   we can put it into transit&#8211;  translink( the bc goverment ) hasn`t a hope in hell of raising 14billion in dribs and drabs!      either we are serious or were not!    hell even if bc lottery was to pay for translink expansion,with all its income it would still take decades!                      you all disapoint me&#8211; just like a decade of federal liberals promising daycare&#8211;as well as a decade of stalling kyoto accord!                                                                             talks cheap BC LIBERALS PUT ( OUR ) MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!                     signed&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;reality</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Rees</title>
		<link>http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/taxpayers-get-say-on-18m-transit-levy/#comment-10977</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Rees</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:27:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/?p=1032#comment-10977</guid>
		<description>Sacha

The value of your property has no relation to the amount you use the transportation system. Someone who has moved out to the edges to find a cheaper property but continues to drive to work will certainly use the system a lot more than someone who can afford to live downtown and walk to work.

The problem that we face is that we do not have enough resources to provide a good transit system - and property owners are highly resistant to paying more. In fact when property prices increase, revenues don&#039;t follow as the rules of municipal finance do not permit that. Although Translink has done well out of property tax that does not mean it is an equitable or efficient system.

I thought I had been pretty outspoken about my preference for user pay - especially as applies to road users. Any kind of subsidy distorts the market - and right now we have far too much road use and parking and not nearly enough transit. And I would lay the blame on the use of property tax. 

Because of the way that property prices work, and the fact that no one regulates how much anyone spends on transportation (as opposed to the rules regulations that surround mortgages) we over consume transport services. Especially since we do not pay to drive: we absorb most driving costs as fixed fees that do not vary no matter how much we drive - so unsurprisingly, we have an incentive to get as much use as we can out of our cars. 

To add to our woes, the gas tax is charged by volume not price - so the more people do the right thing, the less money we have for transit. Kinda dumb huh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sacha</p>
<p>The value of your property has no relation to the amount you use the transportation system. Someone who has moved out to the edges to find a cheaper property but continues to drive to work will certainly use the system a lot more than someone who can afford to live downtown and walk to work.</p>
<p>The problem that we face is that we do not have enough resources to provide a good transit system &#8211; and property owners are highly resistant to paying more. In fact when property prices increase, revenues don&#8217;t follow as the rules of municipal finance do not permit that. Although Translink has done well out of property tax that does not mean it is an equitable or efficient system.</p>
<p>I thought I had been pretty outspoken about my preference for user pay &#8211; especially as applies to road users. Any kind of subsidy distorts the market &#8211; and right now we have far too much road use and parking and not nearly enough transit. And I would lay the blame on the use of property tax. </p>
<p>Because of the way that property prices work, and the fact that no one regulates how much anyone spends on transportation (as opposed to the rules regulations that surround mortgages) we over consume transport services. Especially since we do not pay to drive: we absorb most driving costs as fixed fees that do not vary no matter how much we drive &#8211; so unsurprisingly, we have an incentive to get as much use as we can out of our cars. </p>
<p>To add to our woes, the gas tax is charged by volume not price &#8211; so the more people do the right thing, the less money we have for transit. Kinda dumb huh?</p>
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		<title>By: Geof</title>
		<link>http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/taxpayers-get-say-on-18m-transit-levy/#comment-10976</link>
		<dc:creator>Geof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/?p=1032#comment-10976</guid>
		<description>Late last week, I participated in a random Ipsos-Reid telephone survey about  the proposed transit expansions.  After asking how important I felt expansion is, and how serious I think traffic problems are, the survey focused on funding.  The proposed mechanisms were:  a) increasing the parking tax (from 7% to 21% I believe);  b) a flat $100 vehicle levy;  c) a vehicle levy proportional to distance driven, averaging $100;  d) a vehicle levy according to fuel efficiency, averaging $100;  e) gas tax;  f) increased fares (inflation or inflation+2% I think);  g) a property tax increase (inflation or inflation+2% I think).  The survey asked what I liked, what I disliked, and seemed quite interested in why.  The researcher actually read my reasons back to me.  (I liked the gas tax and vehicle levies.  I was opposed to the property tax, as it is not an incentive to changing modes, nor does it connect to the use of services.)  I wonder to what extent this was an attempt to choose a mechanism versus data collection to craft a communication strategy for an existing choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Late last week, I participated in a random Ipsos-Reid telephone survey about  the proposed transit expansions.  After asking how important I felt expansion is, and how serious I think traffic problems are, the survey focused on funding.  The proposed mechanisms were:  a) increasing the parking tax (from 7% to 21% I believe);  b) a flat $100 vehicle levy;  c) a vehicle levy proportional to distance driven, averaging $100;  d) a vehicle levy according to fuel efficiency, averaging $100;  e) gas tax;  f) increased fares (inflation or inflation+2% I think);  g) a property tax increase (inflation or inflation+2% I think).  The survey asked what I liked, what I disliked, and seemed quite interested in why.  The researcher actually read my reasons back to me.  (I liked the gas tax and vehicle levies.  I was opposed to the property tax, as it is not an incentive to changing modes, nor does it connect to the use of services.)  I wonder to what extent this was an attempt to choose a mechanism versus data collection to craft a communication strategy for an existing choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Sungsu</title>
		<link>http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/taxpayers-get-say-on-18m-transit-levy/#comment-10975</link>
		<dc:creator>Sungsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/?p=1032#comment-10975</guid>
		<description>I believe that some base level of property tax is desirable because a good transportation system increases the value of one&#039;s property. Increasing the property tax rate too much, however, becomes regressive because many homeowners with high-value properties have low incomes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that some base level of property tax is desirable because a good transportation system increases the value of one&#8217;s property. Increasing the property tax rate too much, however, becomes regressive because many homeowners with high-value properties have low incomes.</p>
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		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/taxpayers-get-say-on-18m-transit-levy/#comment-10974</link>
		<dc:creator>Sacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/?p=1032#comment-10974</guid>
		<description>You wrote: &quot;Property tax is one of the worst ways I can think of to pay for transportation.&quot;

I can&#039;t recall a post from you on this topic, care to elaborate?  Since people live in the GVRD one way or another, it would imply that people living in more expensive properties would pay Translink relatively more than those living in inexpensive properties.  This would also be implied in the rental rates so there is no escaping it unless if you&#039;re homeless.

Are you suggesting that Translink be funded out of the provincial general revenue fund?  Or make it even more user-pay than it is currently?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You wrote: &#8220;Property tax is one of the worst ways I can think of to pay for transportation.&#8221;</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t recall a post from you on this topic, care to elaborate?  Since people live in the GVRD one way or another, it would imply that people living in more expensive properties would pay Translink relatively more than those living in inexpensive properties.  This would also be implied in the rental rates so there is no escaping it unless if you&#8217;re homeless.</p>
<p>Are you suggesting that Translink be funded out of the provincial general revenue fund?  Or make it even more user-pay than it is currently?</p>
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		<title>By: Sungsu</title>
		<link>http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/taxpayers-get-say-on-18m-transit-levy/#comment-10972</link>
		<dc:creator>Sungsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 01:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/?p=1032#comment-10972</guid>
		<description>From the article: &quot;&#039;This is not a new tax,&#039; Parker, a former president of the Workers&#039; Compensation Board, said in a news release. &#039;It is revenue that TransLink has already factored into its long-term budgeting.&#039;&quot;

Talk about doublespeak. If you shift from a parking stall tax to a property tax, it&#039;s still a tax increase. If hypothetically, the TransLink board were allowed to replace the parking stall tax with an increase in the fuel tax, would he be saying it&#039;s not a new tax?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the article: &#8220;&#8216;This is not a new tax,&#8217; Parker, a former president of the Workers&#8217; Compensation Board, said in a news release. &#8216;It is revenue that TransLink has already factored into its long-term budgeting.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>Talk about doublespeak. If you shift from a parking stall tax to a property tax, it&#8217;s still a tax increase. If hypothetically, the TransLink board were allowed to replace the parking stall tax with an increase in the fuel tax, would he be saying it&#8217;s not a new tax?</p>
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		<title>By: Ron C.</title>
		<link>http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/taxpayers-get-say-on-18m-transit-levy/#comment-10970</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/?p=1032#comment-10970</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The Canada Line and the Golden Ears Bridge are costing much more because of the fallout of the bundled mortgages crisis. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

But with a fixed price contract, those increased costs are in the hands of the private contractors.  The government authorities are not running around trying to reallocate additonal taxpayers&#039; money for the projects - like was done for the Convention Centre.  
Sure, the private contractors will have to make up that money some how, but with fares and tolls set by the governmental authorities, they&#039;ll have to do it some other way.  
Conceivably, the private contractor could go bankrupt, but as they did at the start of the project, they can raise additional capital, and if you criticize that the additional capital was from a couple of pension funds, those pension funds would analyse their investment choices before investing.  They could invest in a shopping mall, for example (think ICBC investing in Surrey Place Mall and building an office tower, now hopefully the spark for Central Surrey), so I don&#039;t see why they can&#039;t invest in a project that will have substantial public benefits if the number look good.  Besides, InTransitBC has too much riding on this - their contribution to the project is $700million (more than any single governmental entity).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The Canada Line and the Golden Ears Bridge are costing much more because of the fallout of the bundled mortgages crisis. </p></blockquote>
<p>But with a fixed price contract, those increased costs are in the hands of the private contractors.  The government authorities are not running around trying to reallocate additonal taxpayers&#8217; money for the projects &#8211; like was done for the Convention Centre.<br />
Sure, the private contractors will have to make up that money some how, but with fares and tolls set by the governmental authorities, they&#8217;ll have to do it some other way.<br />
Conceivably, the private contractor could go bankrupt, but as they did at the start of the project, they can raise additional capital, and if you criticize that the additional capital was from a couple of pension funds, those pension funds would analyse their investment choices before investing.  They could invest in a shopping mall, for example (think ICBC investing in Surrey Place Mall and building an office tower, now hopefully the spark for Central Surrey), so I don&#8217;t see why they can&#8217;t invest in a project that will have substantial public benefits if the number look good.  Besides, InTransitBC has too much riding on this &#8211; their contribution to the project is $700million (more than any single governmental entity).</p>
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